Core Performance Forums  

Go Back   Core Performance Forums > Main Category > Nutrition

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-24-2008, 10:42 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MI
Posts: 45
Default Protein Absorption

I suspect that many suffer from the same issue...but don't realize it!

I'm a senior athlete who has issues with protein absorption. (Tested by Enterolabs) The issue is that I eat lots of protein (Over 200 grams per day) much of which is NOT absorbed. The result is a lack of progress in building strength/muscle.

Have you guys run into this with other athlete's? Do you have any suggestions on how to improve the absorption of protein?

Currently I'm taking Celepro to increase acidity in the GI to increase protein absorption.

Celepro is a NON-MEDICAL supplement:
Green Tea Leaf Extract (Camellia sinensis) 300 mg
[provides 60% (180 mg) total polyphenols, 30% (90 mg) epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG)]
D-Limonene 500 mg
[from sweet orange peel oil (Citrus sinensis)]
Lycopene 2.5 mg
Turmeric Rhizome Extract (Cur***a longa) 50 mg

There are several other GI issues including Candida, Bad Bacteria Overgrowth, and an undergrowth of Good Bacteria. We're treating these with NON-MEDICAL supplements as well.

I work my butt off just to keep lean muscle!
__________________
Younger Next Year
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-24-2008, 11:00 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MI
Posts: 45
Default Correction!

Am taking an enzyme to improve absorption:

Name: Spectrazyme...contains.

Protease I 20,000 PC
Protease II 200,000 USP
Protease III 40,000 HUT
Amylase 20,000 DU
Lipase 2,000 LU
Cellulase 2,000 CU
Peptidase 600 Units
Maltase 600 DP
Lactase 400 LAC U
Invertase 400 SUMNER
Amla Fruit (Phyllanthus emblica) 40 mg

The Celapro is to kill of bad bacteria....(a holistic option to strong anti-biotics.)
__________________
Younger Next Year
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-25-2008, 04:31 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1
Default Another case of protein malabsorption

I have the same problem with protein malabsorption. I am female and in my 20's. I am not an athlete. It takes 150-200 grams of protein a day to give me enough energy to do normal daily activities. I do light exercise such as yoga. I can gain weight (fat) if I eat too many carbohydrates, but have a difficult time building muscle. I do not gain weight from eating protein. I have very low muscle mass with visible bones in my back, not enough muscle in my neck, back arms and legs. My wrists are only 5.5" around.

I have searched the Internet for more information about this problem. All the health articles I've found about protein say that a person my size and age only needs 40 grams of protein a day, but I would starve in a day or two on that. I feel extremely weak after going more than 5 hours without eating another 50 grams or so of protein.

The cause of my problem is most likely complications from Celiac Disease, a genetic disorder that attacks the lining of the small intestine, where protein is absorbed. Have you had yourself tested for Celiac Disease? It's the only auto-immune disease with a known trigger, and the trigger is ingestion of gluten, the protein in wheat and barley. Even if you don't have Celiac Disease you may benefit from reducing the amount of gluten in your diet. Gluten causes malabsorption problems.

I worry about my liver and kidneys, eating this much protein. What does your doctor say about that? If you are not absorbing all the protein, is it safe to eat 200 grams a day?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-27-2008, 09:25 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 168
Default

I have not heard of Enterolabs, but we use do use ImmunoLabs at AP. As for your intake can you give me your height, weight, age, gender. It's not just going to come down to protein, but overall calories to maintain/lose/gain weight and lean muscle mass.

Do you have hypertension, high cholesterol, high triglycerides, etc?

What do you mean by your protein is not absorbed? Is it all protein i.e. fish, poultry, beef, lamb, pork, dairy, legumes, nuts, grains, veggies? How is that tested?

How many days a week are you training and for how long?

Are you consuming a shake or complete balanced meal within 10-30 minutes of training?

How long have you had the Candida. When we test (ImmunoLabs) people at APAZ we notice many are sensitive (have IgG reactions) to both brewer's and baker's yeast, wheat, eggs, and/or dairy. However the other food groups vary between individuals. It's very interesting.

If you don't mind can you give me the basis behind the supps? I'm curious :)

Green Tea Leaf Extract (Camellia sinensis) 300 mg
[provides 60% (180 mg) total polyphenols, 30% (90 mg) epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG)]
D-Limonene 500 mg
[from sweet orange peel oil (Citrus sinensis)]
Lycopene 2.5 mg
Turmeric Rhizome Extract (Cur***a longa) 50 mg

Sorry for all the questions. :) Look forward to hearing from you.
__________________
Danielle LaFata, MA, RD, CPT
Performance Nutritionist/Education Specialist
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-27-2008, 10:34 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MI
Posts: 45
Default Hey Danielle!

Thanks for your response. Below are answers to your questions:

1. 6' 3", 180 lbs, 59 year old, male

2. My cardiovasuclar heath is excellent: BP is 100/58; 170 cholesterol, Triglycerides <45, am resting heart rate 45,
HR recovery from max. heart rate 38 in one minute.

3. Most of my health issues are GI related: Celiac, with dairy sensitivity, candida overgrowth, and reduced beneficial bacteria. The outward result is chronic inflammation which shows up in the form of sinus, muscle and joint aches, slow recovery, etc. THESE are all much better since the treatments listed and since I'm gluten and dairy free! I still eat eggs and soy.

4. "What do you mean by your protein is not absorbed?"

The test for protein absorbtion was done by Genova Diagnostics. The results are: Long Chain Fatty Acids 47 mg/g; Fecal Fat (total)= 56.8; Triglycerides 1.6 mg/g; Cholesterol 2.4 mg/g; Phospholipids 5.8 mg/g

The Fecal Fat and Long Chain Fatty Acids score is problematic and indicates malabsorption of protein.

My protein comes mostly from eggs (powder (one scoop 24 grams), and fresh 5 eggs per day), soy milk (12-16 oz), chicken (6oz. per day) , quinoa grain, rice grain, veggies, and nuts.

5. "How many days a week are you training and for how long?"

In season:

Monday: Spinning 45 minutes (intensity...hard); Leg strength 30 minutes (calorie burn is 1100-1200)
Tuesday: Recovery...foam rolling; long slow run 50 minutes at 65% max. heart rate. (calorie burn 600) Golf (calorie burn about 1800).
Wednesday: Core workout with chest and back emphasis; 20 minutes of medium intervals. (Calorie burn 900)
Thursday: Recovery...long slow run for 50 mintues at 65%...followed by massage. (calorie burn 600)
Friday: Spinning (medium intensity) 45 minutes; Leg or Chest and back strength training. (calorie burn 900-1000)
Saturday: Golf (calorie burn about 1800)
Sunday: Same as Tuesday

Out of season:
Basically doing phase 4,5,6 of the basic core performance program plus some added strength and a cardio program designed for me by Paul Robbins.

6. "Are you consuming a shake or complete balanced meal within 10-30 minutes of training?" Yes, I take 6 oz of soy milk within minutes after my workouts. Then have a egg protein and soy shake when I get home (30 minutes later).

7. "How long have you had the Candida." I've just been "officially" diagnosed but we suspect I've had Candida for YEARS. The survey I took scored VERY HIGH with Candida. Eliminating dairy showed immediate results last year, but it's not perfect. The test last month showed positive for candida.

8. "When we test (ImmunoLabs) people at APAZ we notice many are sensitive (have IgG reactions) to both brewer's and baker's yeast, wheat, eggs, and/or dairy. However the other food groups vary between individuals. It's very interesting."

Yes, the odd thing with my case is that my C-reactive protein scores are very low! Yet I have had chronic IgG reactions...bug bites, sinus, rashes, soreness.

9. "If you don't mind can you give me the basis behind the supps? I'm curious :)"

Sure, no problem.

The supplements are the herbal option to meds...which I hate. The medical solution to candida are nasty (and dangerous) anti-fungals. The lack of good bacteria can be altered with probiotics, while the bad ones are being killed by herbals instead of powerful anti-biotics.

The enzyme is intended to increase absorption. I'm taking plenty of vitamin supplements...hopefully some are getting through :-) The amount of cramping is down....by a huge factor.

Years of taking anti-biotics is at LEAST partially responsible for my "gut from hell." To help heal the gut I'm taking about 10-15 grams a day of l-glutamine.

The list below is from the metagenics website and describes their product called Celapro.

Green Tea Leaf Extract (Camellia sinensis) 300 mg
[provides 60% (180 mg) total polyphenols, 30% (90 mg) epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG)]
D-Limonene 500 mg
[from sweet orange peel oil (Citrus sinensis)]
Lycopene 2.5 mg
Turmeric Rhizome Extract (Cur***a longa) 50 mg

Sorry for all the questions. :) Look forward to hearing from you.

This is all leading edge stuff. I'm not surprise that AP already has a handle on it.

Do you find many clients with "gut" caused inflammation and or candida overgrowth? I would be surprised...but anyone who has taken lots of anti-biotics and has the habit of loading up on sugar at various times is a candidate!

I've got "religion" now, but there was a time when I could eat anything and break down brick walls :-) no more of either....

Thanks,
gw
__________________
Younger Next Year
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-10-2008, 12:54 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 168
Default

Well based on your height, weight, age, gender and activity factor I have you around 2600 calories to maintain your weight. We like to use a 50% carb, 25% protein and 25% fat breakdown for the most part. That would bring you to 165g of protein a day from dairy, meats, veggies, grains, legumes. Unless you're trying to gain then calories would be as high as 3600 calories/day and 233g of protein still at 50-25-25. So with that said you'll need between 325-450g of quality carbs from whole grains, beans, fruits veggies.

Protein definitely needs to be split up throughout the day and consumed with every meal.

You also want to make sure that you are not over training. This can be a big stickler in maintaining and gaining lean muscle mass. Some signs and symptoms are excessive fatigue, over/under hungy, excessive thirst, irritable, moody.

Also post-workout you will need a 2:1 ratio of carbohydrates to protein within 10-30 minutes of the workout and then a solid meal consisting of grain, lean protein, healthy fat, vegetables, maybe even a fruit serving or two witin an hour of that. Approximately 60g of carbohydrate and 30g protein for the post-workout shake/snack/meal. It definitely sounds as though you need some carbs with your post-workout recovery. For instance 5 cups Soy (40 oz) will provide the 30g protein you need and almost all the carbs you need (10g shy).

C-reative protein isn't the only substance that increases when there is inflammation in the system and this particular substance is more of a marker for CVD. Other inflammatory markers include the cytokines such as interleukins, tumor necrosis factor-alpha, etc. So there may be inflammation, but it may not be conducive with CRP.

Once our clients have done the immunolabs test they don't do the follow up for the candida. They just started elimanting foods for the 3 month period and the try to add them back. However, once they start eliminating the "high sensitivity foods" they do start feeling better. So the answer to your question is no :)

Are you on a special diet for the candida. Typically people go on low carb diets to get rid of it, but with your training level you need no less than 325g/day.

Let me know what you think.
__________________
Danielle LaFata, MA, RD, CPT
Performance Nutritionist/Education Specialist
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-15-2008, 03:59 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MI
Posts: 45
Default Follow-up

Do you check the inflammation markers mentioned with Immunolabs?

Based on your suggestion, I rechecked my calories and protein intake and it was a little low. Protein was 160. Total calories were around 2600-3000. I've been eating a couple of bars (lara bars) which are a bit high in fat without many calories from protein. I'm not surprised that I've lost a few pounds this summer because of more golf...

Today I tweaked my calories to around 2900 with 220 grams of protein......I want to put on about 5 pounds.

Moved post workout "snack" to 50-25-25.

AFTER taking 2 weeks "off" I found that my heart rate peaked much quicker today during a spinning class. I've had trouble lately getting it to 95% of max. during intervals which is a sign of over training. Today I got to 95% and didn't feel much if any burn!

The off weeks did include: 3 days of light (65% of MHR) endurance running (50 minutes each). Week before was lots of walking and golf 5-9 hours per day for 4 straight days in severe wind.

I'm not on a special diet to eliminate candida although I do watch sugar (fruit etc.) and other things that cause fermentation. The supplements seem to be helping and I'll get retested in another month or two to be certain.

This is what I'm taking for Candida:

http://www.metagenics.com/products/detail.asp?pid=43
http://www.metagenics.com/products/detail.asp?pid=44

In addition I'm taking two probiotics.

How does this sound?
__________________
Younger Next Year
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-22-2008, 12:29 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 168
Default

Hi,

I'm not sure if immunolabs tests for inflammation markers. If they do it's separate from testing just the IgG food sensitivites. I have to look into that one.

At 2900 calories and 220 grams of protein that is 30% of calories. We would have you at 180 grams protein or 25% of calories. If you're trying to gain weight it will be overall calories not protein calories that will help to put the weight on. The equation will even have to taken into account how much you're expending. It's the energy balance equation or the law of thermodynamics if energy isn't used, it's stored. If energy in, meets energy out you maintain, if energy in is less than energy out you lose. And protein will not be used efficiently without the proper amount of carbohydrate.

Post-workout should be a 2:1 ratio of carbohydrates to protein. So for you that would be 60g carbohydrate and 30g protein consumed within 10-30 minutes of a workout and a good well rounded meal within an hour of that.

I have heard of metagenics before, but not very familiar with them. As far as the candida diet and Rx to get rid of it.....I must say I'm still doing research to understand it. :) Cutting out/cutting back on carbs makes sense to a point, but what happens when you add them back in? Does the candida come back? Fruits and whole grains have many beneficial attributes i.e. vitamins, minerals, fiber, natural enzymes, phytochemicals/flavanoids and shouldn't be taken out for very long. Especially with the type of activity that you're doing. You need to stay fueled and make sure that you have the proper amounts of the above nutrients to fuel daily activity and physical activity as well ward off other diseases/illnesses.

I'm definitely curious to hear how your test results come out. What other foods do they have you limiting or cutting out?

And I'm glad to hear that your training is back up to par! Sometimes a little time of or active rest does a body good :)

Cheers!
__________________
Danielle LaFata, MA, RD, CPT
Performance Nutritionist/Education Specialist
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-22-2008, 11:05 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MI
Posts: 45
Default Tweaking protein to 180 give or take

Thanks Danielle!

Candida is present in everyone's gut. It gets out of control...too much...when there's too much sugar present AND after prolonged and frequent us of anti-biotics. This is a hidden danger of AB use that's not talked about much versus the fear bugs resistant to AB's.

Low sugar carbs are ok. I have to watch fruit intake....still eating about 3-4 cups a day (2 cups plus 2 apples, and a small amount of dried fruit on salads and mixed with raw nuts).

Regards,
Gary

PS. Have you heard of anyone with HDL higher than LDL? That was the result of my last physical! 84 vs. 81!! Doctor told me he had never seen that for anyone..... ;-)
__________________
Younger Next Year
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-23-2008, 09:42 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MI
Posts: 45
Default 2:1 carbs to protein post workout

You didn't mention good fat post workout...I'm assuming 50,25,25 post workout..right?
__________________
Younger Next Year
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is Off
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 (Unregistered)