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  #1  
Old 06-27-2008, 02:52 PM
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Default Rows ( Horizontal Pull Exercises)

I have noticed that in the Performance Training Program after the Get Stable Phase there doesn't seem to be horizontal pulling exercises (at least as the primary movement). As I understand program design, there should be a balance of the different movements to help prevent injuries and uneven development. I'm guessing that some of the other exercises may involve this plane of movement to a smaller degree such as the Rotational Row. I would like to get someones take on it. I love the programs in CP but get caught up over analyzing at times. Thanks much!
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Old 06-30-2008, 06:42 PM
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The upper body definitely needs a horizontal pull stimulus balanced against a vertical pull. It can come in a variety of forms though- YTWL's in Pillar Strength, Rotational rows, or holding postural positioning during a vertical pull.
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Old 07-01-2008, 07:04 AM
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Thank You CraigF. What do you mean by holding postural positioning during vertical pull exercises? Sorry to be a pain but I just like to understand the concepts.
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:47 PM
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as you begin the pulling movement, focus on initiating the movement by setting your scapulae into the proper position and then holding that position throughout the range of motion.

There was a thread here recently about it. http://www.coreperformance.com/cpBoa...ead.php?t=2291
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Old 07-08-2008, 04:49 AM
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Wink Horizontal rows

I read the thread above and find myself agreeing more with PJTravis than with Craig F. Why?

A couple of months ago I paid a physical therapist for an assymetry assessment. One of his observations was that I need to do more horizontal rows. I looked back at my training program (CP Tennis) and noticed that there were NONE. The main rowing exercise is the contralateral 1 leg/1 arm row which is alternated with a 2 leg row. The logicians out there will note that there is another possible explanation - is it me (the tradesman) or is it the program (the tools!)??? I then recalled what I had heard Mike Boyle say on the subject - namely that desk jockeys (like me) need to do more horizontal rows. In the MB paradigm there are 7 basic strength exercises: 1 of which is horizontal pull (row). In the CP programs (that I have seen/done) there are face down horizontal pulling (1 arm/1 leg etc.) but no standing or faceup horizontal rows.

To be a little controversial here - I 'm not convinced (yet) by Craig F's comments above - rotational row, T's and W's don't get the same rotator cuff action as a horizontal pull in my opinion. I concede that standing T's and W's are pretty close but they are not in my CP program.

After paying my p.t. good money I have added standing and inverted horizontal rows into my CP based program. Maybe CP should think about doing the same? Of course keeping things the way they are will help keep all the p.t.'s out there in the style of life that they aspire to....
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Last edited by Chris Clegg; 07-08-2008 at 01:00 PM.
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  #6  
Old 07-08-2008, 05:39 AM
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The one arm rotational row is included in the CP tennis programme, MB counts this as a horizontal pull as well as the the one-arm, one leg DB row.
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:49 AM
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Default Tennis training

As a strength coach, I have to agree with AP. If you look at the demand of your sport you need to improve you rotational core strength and power. therefore you need to put some emphasis on rotational row, pull up variations and rotational power.

I am not familar with the tennis program, but I am assumimg that you also have some vertical pull (for your serve...). I think that you are addressing a particular situation, yours. As long that you scap stab muscles are strong and intergrated in your movement you will be fine. Also , Do you master your pulling movement? Do your shrug while performing a chin up? What did your PT say? Have you ever done a FMS?


Let's not forget that no program is personalized. I think that CP's programs are only the tip of the iceberg, a generalized concept which address common injuries in tennis, strength and power to improve your game. And keep in mind that there is no one way to achieve your goal.

Keep me posted
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:50 AM
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aggreed at 100%
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Old 07-08-2008, 07:02 AM
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I just looked at the tennis program and there is horizontal pull ex. = contralateral row
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  #10  
Old 07-08-2008, 10:45 AM
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Thumbs up

Well - I like the debate even if no-one agrees with me! Q: Is In Pro Form 1 person or several people under the same pseudonym?

Firstly a mistake on my part - what I meant to say was that I need more horizontal e.g. standing etc. or inverted rows (facing the ceiling) instead of face down rows. To respond to your points:

1. What my p.t. recommended was a series of exercises which were exactly the same as you can also find in MB's Functional Training for Sports book under horizontal pulling - namely the inverted row and the standing (facing the wall) 1 arm/1 leg row (not contralateral as per CP). When he recommended them to me it was a bit of a lightening bolt moment as I realized where I had seen these exercises before and that I had not included them into my CP program even though I had seen MB's latest strength and power for sports dvd where he strongly recommends inverted rows again.

2. All of the strength rows in the CP programs that I have seen are performed facing down (the floor) not facing the wall (standing) or facing the ceiling (inverted). It was precisely these last 2 variations that my p.t. highlighted to me after testing. The contralateral 1 arm/1 leg (facing the floor) row is a great multiplanar exercise for sure - however, I find that I get a very different emphasis than if I row standing up certainly the weight distribution is very different when you standing on 1 leg - I think my physio guy was right: I get much better muscular isolation from rowing when facing the wall or the ceiling.

3. The AP rotational row is a great exercise. When I visited AP in March I understood for the first time that this exercise is primarily about glute power generation rather than a row. (It was taught slightly differently than the example on the website - a free hand punch was added to the movement). I've understood from the CP program design that it is intended to be part of a core superset circuit which is to be done in between the 2 strength circuits on upper body days. In terms of the MB paradigm I would include this under his rotational power category rather than horizontal pressing - but clearly it depends how you do the exercise.

4. Regarding the FMS - its designed to pick up basic movement limitations or imbalances as you probably know. I have spent a lot of time going from a 13 in March to an 18 when I retested 2 months ago. (I'm hoping to get to a 19 with a 3 on the deep squat next time) What I was asking my P.T. for was an assessment of physical strength assymetries and particular preventitive strategies for playing competitive tennis which has a typically 1 way rotational movement pattern (80% of tennis is internal rotation of 1 shoulder: i.e. forehands or serves). The big issues for older tennis players (in addition to just being older athletes) are integrated shoulder function, decreased postural stability, hip alignment (from jumping on 1 foot on the serve) and scoliosis in the spine coming from over-development on one side of the body.

Overall I'm in pretty good shape compared to my peer group - other players my own age.

Any further wisdom greatfully received.
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Last edited by Chris Clegg; 07-08-2008 at 12:03 PM.
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